Chapter 5: Bombing High Level Job Interviews

Along the way from functional doer to executive thinker, you have to cross a magic, invisible line, where on yonder side, things like knowledge of the company’s budgeting or on-boarding processes suddenly and inexplicably become… irrelevant.

What?! Did he just say “irrelevant?”

I did. Now be quiet and pay attention.

(And as a sweetener, at the end of this post I’ve included a link to the actual content of an entire book which lays out for you how you’re completely messing up your career, and what to do when you want to start getting it right. So hang in there, Sparky.)

I understand, oh ye careerist, that the Holy Grail of Executive Training appears to be a strategic finance class that shows you precisely how to calculate the impact of an increase in bad debt allowance on your Q3 P&L. I also understand that by the time you get to corporate executivedom, you will be so consumed by the relative merits of a bond offering versus a stock offering versus a sale that you will have little time for P&L reviews and will be forced to hire quality underlyings—with the mindset you have today, ahem—to handle such items.

So what are you to make of this mystical transition? How will you respond to my cry that thy vision of tomorrow’s job is no more than a cursed mirage, offering no respite from the desert wasteland that is your work life? How can you possibly prepare for such craziness?!

For starters, take advantage of the link below and start reading How to Self-Destruct: Making the Least of What’s Left of Your Career.

Here’s a little snippet from this week’s installment, from a chapter on screwing up an executive job interview:

I’m neither strategic nor execution-oriented, and I want to capitalize on my severe shortcomings in these areas [to self-destruct]. Any tips?

Don’t take the lead by anticipating questions.
If you get the gist of where the interview is heading, keep it to yourself! The willingness to take appropriate risks in pursuit of your goals is a desirable trait in leaders. In an interview, determining the pattern of the interview and then leading your interviewer along could get you the job by signaling such risk-taking.

What if I want to get the job?

Plan to answer every question from the perspective of the position you are interviewing for.

If you can’t see yourself in the new job, neither can the interviewer. This means you need to go beyond projecting confidence; it means you need to demonstrate deep awareness of the types of issues, struggles, opportunities, and decisions you will face in the new role, as well as an appropriately high-level perspective for addressing them. You need to do all this in addition to interviewing fundamentals like sitting up straight.

Want the rest of the book? Click here and scroll down. The first 5 chapters are already live… the rest are being posted one at a time each week.

Posted under Job Interviews, How to Self-Destruct

This post was written by Seiden on November 12, 2008

Hiring: Assessing action orientation

You’ve put your competency model into place. You’ve created behavioral interviewing questions around each.

Now what? How do you know if the responses you get are actually indicative of the competency you’re looking for? (Hint: you can’t trust the answer itself, because it’s likely that the candidate was coached through it!)

Let’s use the competency “action orientation” and see what the alternative is!

Posted under Coaching & Consulting, Job Interviews

This post was written by Seiden on October 25, 2008

Q: How do I hire self-starters?

A: As a manager, one of the things you might want to look for in a subordinate is the ability to self-direct. And why not? Having a team of self-starters makes your job as a manager nice and easy, right?

Actually, not so fast. Before we dive into the tactics of what to look for when hiring for the “self-starter” competency, consider first how having an intrinsically motivated individual on your team will impact things:

  1. This person will act on limited information, seeking forgiveness, not permission.
  2. This person will expose others on the team who do not work as hard.
  3. This person will build relationships with your peers and possibly even your superiors.
  4. This person may make you work harder just to keep up with your subordinate.
  5. This person may take an informal leadership role on your team.
  6. This person may not need you as much as you will need this person.

In short, this person may make you feel threatened in your current job, as s/he causes previous practices to be called into question while building powerful relationships around you and demonstrating superior results.

Generally, I find that most people think they want self-starters because they have this image for themselves of sitting back and relaxing while their team of self-starters do all the work… then, during the interview, when looking at a self-starter, many of them begin to realize, intuitively, what’s in store; it takes a courageous manager with ambitions of his or her own (or a strong teaching orientation) to tolerate strength below in the hierarchy. Managers who are not so secure in their own roles, when faced with the self-directed candidate in person, may start to find behaviors that sounded good in theory to look “annoying,” “pushy,” and “arrogant.”

But now, I’m an optimist; in my world, managers are fearless, and they truly want the best and brightest for their teams, even at the expense of their own security. So, ye manager, if you are going to assume the risks that come with building the absolute best team possible, you’re going to want the following information:

When looking at a job candidate and considering whether the person is a self-starter, watch for the following:

  1. How does the person respond to you in the interview itself? Does the candidate repeatedly wait to be asked a question before offering information? Do they repeatedly ask for clarity about their answers? Do they constrain their answers to the bare minimum? Do they avoid small talk, relationship-building, and other non-Q&A interactions? Or, do they take the interview and run with it, leaving you with the slight feeling that if you don’t jump in, they may take the process slightly off-course from where you want it to go? Do they offer well constructed, thorough answers that have “hooks”—points of interest that provide easy segues to follow up questions? Do they gently challenge you? Do they show as much energy at the end of the interview as at the beginning?
  2. How does the person behave outside the interview? We don’t care so much how the person describes himself or herself, because we don’t know how self-aware the person is and therefore can’t trust their interpretations of their own behaviors, but we do care about how they say they will act. For instance, how will they decide on which job offer to take? Who else will be part of their decision process; are those people counselors who will aid them or authorities who will give them implicit permission? How did they make decisions in the past—can you find a theme that this person consistently had decisions “vetted” by authority figures before making them? I know parents are becoming a more integral part of the hiring process, and one of the questions that raises for me is, does this candidate know how to make a decision alone? The involvement of parents clouds the issue, making it more difficult to know if the candidate is truly self-directed… or is having his or her strings pulled by mom and dad.

One other thing you can do is narrow down what you mean by self-starter. There are a number of competencies you could look for that cluster around that same concept, such as decisiveness, comfort with ambiguity, ambition, forward-looking, action oriented, results oriented… sometimes, being able to tease these competencies apart can make it easier to understand what exactly you are looking for, and can help you distinguish between two candidates who both seem to have the quality you are looking for, but who express it differently.

Posted under Q&A, Coaching & Consulting, Job Interviews, Gen X & Gen Y

This post was written by Seiden on August 14, 2008

Q: How do I handle the question, “Aside from the steady paycheck, why do you want to work here?” in an interview?

A: My guess is that more job candidates sink themselves on this question than any other, so in honor of all those students interviewing for first jobs while counting down the days to graduation–as well as all the business owners, GMs, and HR personnel conducting interviews with them, I thought I’d take a quick crack at this one.We’ve all had this question asked of us, we’ve all spent hours planning for it, and we’ve all whiffed it at least once. This is one of those questions that has no one “right” answer, but lots and lots of wrong answers, including:

  1. “To tell the truth, everyone else has turned me down.”
  2. “Wow, that’s a good question. I really don’t know.”
  3. “Initially I wasn’t sure, but when I started reading about the company on your website while preparing for this interview, I knew I’d found the place where I want to work for the rest of my life.”
  4. “I think the experience I’ll gain here will be pivotal in helping me prepare for a ‘real’ job search two years from now.”
  5. “Well, to reiterate, I have a degree in [insert specialty here] which makes me perfectly suited for a position such as this one, plus I am energetic, a real team player, and a great problem solver… I think these are areas where I can make a difference.”
  6. ”I think any team would be lucky to have me.”

Employers generally can feel the difference more than they can articulate it, largely because what this question is attempting to “measure” has nothing whatsoever with why you the candidate might want to work at a particular company. (What are you going to do, tell the business owner that you are Passionate-with-a-capital-P about doing grunt work in the insurance/financial services/healthcare industry? Unless you’ve got an Alex P. Keaton personality and can show photographs of your childhood bedroom with premiums tacked to your walls, forget it, it doesn’t work.)The right answer to this question should meet the following criteria:

  1. It should be sincere.
  2. It should demonstrate passion. A successful answer will probably not include the phrase “I am passionate about your business,” but that sentiment will be clear from the answer.
  3. It should come from the gut. This is not to say that you cannot or should not think through your answer. It is, however, to say that your answer should address the question at a fundamental level: no hype, no fancy language, no catchphrases such as “team player” or “add value.”
  4. It should be revealing. Now is the time to take a risk and share something about yourself… specifically, what you hope to get out of the relationship.
  5. It should indicate an appreciation for the interviewer’s point of view. The interviewer doesn’t really care how good you think you are; all she has to do is post an opening on CareerBuilder and 1,300 people with resumes just like yours and over-inflated senses of self just like yours will appear at her door. With this question, she wants to know that you are thoughtful enough to understand her perspective and politically savvy enough to articulate it appropriately.
  6. It should reframe the question, thus demonstrating a willingness to be proactive in uncertain environments.

When I do executive interviews, people often ask me if books about interviewing present a problem to me, since–like this article–they tell candidates exactly how to game the system. My answer is always the same: “I expect people to try to game the interview… if they’re not savvy enough to do that to me at least once, they’re too naive to run a company. That said, it’s my job to know when they’re trying to pull a fast one. A candidate can know every question I am going to ask and the textbook answers to those questions, and none of that knowledge will help, because in the moment, he can’t stop himself from being himself. It’s the way in which he approaches his answers, not what he actually says, that gives me the information I need.” I’m sharing this because I am about to provide an example of a good answer to the question, “Why do you want to work here?” and I want all you interviewers to know that I’m actually not giving anything away here. It’s surprisingly difficult to go from the general advice above to a situation-specific answer like this one, and very nearly impossible to deliver an answer like this with sincerity except when the answer truly is heartfelt and sincere:“I want to work here because I want to work with you. I know some of the people on your team, and I’ve seen them over the past few years or so go from people who held jobs to people who have sparks in their eyes. That spark is something I have and that I want more of. Look, I’m interviewing for a grunt job, we both know what that means in terms of the work I’ll be doing. But the work doesn’t even really matter. What I’m really looking for is an opportunity to put my shoulder to the grindstone every day for a boss who will look at me and tell me exactly where I stand and what I need to do to be the best. At this stage of my career, I think that would be the ideal plan, and from what I see, that seems to be how you run your team. I have no problem working my tail off… I just need a manager who will help me excel.”Is this a “perfect” answer? Certainly not. And if I heard this, I would have some pointed follow up questions to find out who your friends are, what your expectations for the work really are, what working hard means to you, and how career-minded and ambitious you’ll be once you get the job. Still, I think this answer fits the criteria above and is the kind of answer that would get you off to a good start.

Posted under Q&A, Job Interviews, Gen X & Gen Y

This post was written by Seiden on March 27, 2008

New York Minute

Every once in a while, I have the pleasure of working with someone who is really, really smart… enough so that I find myself scrambling to make sure that I’m bringing something real and valuable to the relationship. I love those opportunities, because they force me to give it my all and put myself to the test. Sometimes, I even pass.

By far my favorite such opportunity was a meeting I had in New York last December, with my brother-in-law’s agent. In twenty seven minutes, I had a chance to meet a great guy, field two substantive questions, and learn what a New York minute is really about. Before I go into what happened, let me give you the punchline: I didn’t quite measure up that day. I stumbled out of the gate. I did get to my feet and cross the finish line–and only a fraction of a moment behind–but I still came in second. When I left, I couldn’t figure out if I should be upset at myself for not doing better, or happy that I had done as well as I did. Around and around I went in my head, until my Blackberry buzzed me back to reality.

My brother-in-law’s agent–let’s call him Rich–had taken my call the week before and then took me up on my offer to come by, introduce myself, and say thanks for a favor he had done me a few months prior. I met him at 4pm on a Monday at his Midtown office. He kept me waiting less than five minutes, which surprised me. There was something about the lobby of the agency–a large, two-story room built to impress–that told me to get comfortable… this was a place designed to help agents remind their clients (and anyone else who dared enter their domain) the agent’s place in the food chain. This was a place where people waited.

But not me, not that day. I was quickly ushered in to Rich’s office, where he was finishing up a phone call. The first thing I noticed was that Rich was a lot more powerful a man than I had realized. The entire time I was in there, two lines blinked steadily to indicate callers on hold, and two more people sat in a conference room across the hall. Someone was also waiting for his double-booked 4pm meeting with Rich to start. I knew some of this because Rich told me as much during our conversation, but also because I had seen Rich’s calendar over the receptionist’s shoulder and had heard her counseling patience to the callers while I was in the lobby. Everyone waiting for Rich, yet engaged; nothing so basic as spending time in the lobby. This guy had everyone not just waiting, but hanging on the line… and doing so in plain sight of everyone else who was waiting. I looked around for other clues, but his office lacked the trappings I often find around big time execs. I saw his cards in a card holder on his desk. Does that say “Managing…”? Rich was not a big ego, he was just that good. He was someone who could keep five people waiting and simultaneously use them to impress a sixth.

His flawless social skills confirmed my impression. Rich had all the smooth a person could want in a lifetime, with none of the slick. He built rapport, established a personal connection, extracted and shared meaningful details about each of our lives, all in the span of six minutes. He smiled the entire time. He wasn’t driving–he didn’t need to, I’m fairly adept at carrying on a conversation–but he wasn’t following, either. He was… playing. Then he pounced.

“OK, so you’re on TV doing an interview, and you’ve got an audience of CEOs. A hundred of them are in the studio. What are the three things they need to know?” The question didn’t come out of nowhere, but it did come with an edge that hadn’t been in his voice a moment earlier. This was a fastball right down the middle. I looked at him for a moment, and saw by his smile that he was enjoying the game, I was playing it right and he was taking it up a level. I got the sense that he had liked what he had seen so far and wanted me to succeed… which was why he was giving me an easy one, a question he knew I must have practiced a hundred times. I gave my hook and then delivered behind it an answer that was direct, to the point, relevant, actionable, and…

…completely wrong.

His smile locked. It was just for the merest fraction of a second, but to me his tell was clear as day. He had thrown his fastball right past me. What the…? Suddenly I was a moment behind. Maybe I wasn’t playing this right. Why was my answer wrong? I cut my answer short, there was no need to go on. I redirected the conversation to buy time. I don’t remember exactly what I said, but it was something like, “…It strikes me that I’ve only ever given this answer to people who already know me. I wonder if strangers would take my advice the same way as those who already believe in what they’re buying.” The smile softened, the conversation went on. He gave me a book, First, Break All the Rules, and we started talking about an upcoming conference he would be attending where Buckingham would be speaking.

He’s telling me this for a reason.This is not an invitation, this is a lesson… but what is it?

Another ten minutes of conversation went by. I was getting conflicting signals: I knew I had failed the test, but he hadn’t yet shown me the door. People were still waiting… he was thinking about something. He hasn’t mentally placed me yet. He’s trying to figure out where I fit. Then it came: the second test.

He stood up from his couch. I stayed still; I wasn’t going to help him end our meeting. I wanted him to play his hand, and if I got up now, our conversation would be over. He walked to his door and closed it. “OK,” he started, “Here’s a situation I’ve got that maybe you can help me with…” He proceeded to talk me through, at a high level, a problem he was having with a subordinate. When he was finished, I was leaning forward, my chin in my hand and my elbow on my knee. I was still trying to figure out why he had detoured into a conversation about Buckingham, and had no idea what he should do with his subordinate! He hadn’t given me nearly enough informa–

Then I got it; I knew what I was supposed to do. This wasn’t about the answer; the answers were all already out there. We both knew them. This was about framing the answer to make it… right! It was about taking control and giving him the answer I wanted to give instead of the answer he was asking for, about being my own man and challenging him to reconcile his thoughts against mine. Answering his question directly didn’t give him anything, because it didn’t help him place me; it left my answer without context. I needed to help him figure out where I fit! That had been my mistake earlier; hook or no, I had answered his question and left him without the context he needed. Now I’d answer my own. I sank back into my armchair, stretching my arms out on the armrests, and crossing my legs. I was slouching a little, and I could feel the muscles of my forehead slacken. I turned up the corners of my mouth, never taking my eyes off him. Was the cat being given a second chance at the canary? No time to wonder–time for the kill. “You have a choice,” I said. “Do you want to go the ‘stand-up-guy’ route, or do you want to take the easy route out of this? You can do either.”

Rich paused. I had caught him. He hadn’t been expecting that. He sat back, smiled, and nodded to himself. He was in two places at once, thinking about his ordeal and also sizing me up. He had been hoping I’d give him the right answer, but he had had his doubts that I could… and now his doubts were visibly melting. “I need to be a stand up guy on this. I owe him that much.” I nodded. I was sizing him up now, trying to tell how truthful he was being with himself. I decided that he had the courage to have the conversation I was about to suggest, and went on to tell him how to handle his next conversation, as well as what would happen next. The advice was good, I had no doubt about that, but what I could see in his eyes was, the answer had been right. No frozen smile this time. We watched the ball sail out of the park, and we were both glad to see it go.

Our meeting wrapped up shortly after, and I left, having batted .500 on the two questions, pleased with my ability to hang in there, and disappointed that I hadn’t done better.

When I answered my phone, my wife was on the other line. “How’d your meeting with Rich go?”

“Sweetheart, it takes me two hours to get a full read on a person, and Rich had me nailed in a New York minute. He spent 6 minutes opening me up, and then with one question he got everything he needed to know and discovered I’m not ready for prime time.”

“It was over that fast, huh?”

“No, I somehow earned an additional 21 minutes from him as well as a second chance.”

“How’d you do the second time around?”

“A lot better.”

“So that’s good, no?”

“Yeah… but still, he was the better man today. He was the one giving the chances, you know what I mean? V, I’ve never been sized up so fast. There’s a big part of me hates that he was better than me today, but I have to admit, there is another part of me that loves what just happened. I would never have believed it possible if I hadn’t seen it.”

“Believed what is possible?”

“That so much can be packed into a single moment in time. This guy is in command of a skill that for the rest of the world is an ineffable, visceral reaction. It was awesome to watch. Sitting in his office, I could emulate it, too. Not quite as fast as him, but it was there for me when I needed it. Who knew!” My wife had, and has, no patience for the esoteric.

“What’s your follow up?”

“Are you kidding? None! I ran a close race, but I still came in second. I don’t get to call Rich again until I’ve made it on my own.”

“Do you think he’ll take your call?”

“Not if I call before I’m ready. No way. I don’t need to, anyway. If the time is ever right, he’ll call me. I don’t think I’ll forget our meeting today, and I don’t think he will, either. In the meantime, he has a much more important job to do: take care of our brother-in-law!”

That meeting in New York last December is, to this day, one of my favorite encounters. It moved so fast… and on such a core level… the dance Rich did was sublime. Most of the people this guy deals with never see him coming, I’m sure. It was a pleasure to watch, and learn from, a master at work. Not that I ever wish for failure, but if I’m going to come up short every once in awhile, I want it to be exactly like that, in a situation that takes me to the edge of my abilities and then some.

Posted under Job Interviews, Self-Development, Personal, Assessment

This post was written by Seiden on December 24, 2007