Last night, respected HR pros, cutting edge blogospherists, and friends Steve Boese, Susan Burns and Jennifer McClure… et. al… discussed what needs to happen to make HR work—for realz—moving forward. The conversation happened on Steve’s awesome show HR Happy Hour (listen to Episode 53 here).
Issues they dove into included such things as:
- What does it take to get corporate culture right?
- What does it take to hire to your company’s values?
- What does it take to get a company to acknowledge—outright—what it’s talent philosophy is… as opposed to what it’s aspirations are?
- How do you hire for lifestyle match as opposed to skill match?
All of which is great. In theory. (And on internet radio.)
Here’s why it breaks down in reality:
- Culture starts and ends with leadership, not with HR. The minute HR says, “Gee, culture sucks, we should take the ball here and run with it,” there has been a tacit acknowledgment that leadership has dropped the ball. Which means the battle for corporate culture is already lost.
- HR is not having the right conversation. HR is very, very good at heady discussion. a/k/a navel gazing. What’s needed here, though, is SALES. HR wants to drive? STFU and GO TAKE THE HELM. Don’t drive from HR, drive from a leadership position. Become the missing leadership… go get the line and finance and all the other areas of the company and sell them on your vision. Tell them what to do differently and dare them to say no! Follow Trish McFarlane for an example of someone who’s getting it right.
- On a practical level, too many organizations under-hired in their HR teams. Which means they simply don’t have the talent to execute. The circle of talented, “get it” HRians connected online is way, way… way… too small.
- We don’t yet know how to measure the impact of culture in a clean, isolated way… which means that trying to explain the importance of talent is no different than trying to explain the importance of trust or friendship or love. Have you ever run the numbers on dating? Or marriage? Or having kids? In a debate about where to invest company dollars, culture will continue lose to more transactional projects in all but the most enlightened organizations.
- Short term goals don’t require relationships… or at least they don’t appear to on the surface. And that’s about as far as most people look.
- We are still way too damn litigious in our society. The risks of empowerment are way too scary for many companies that don’t have the resources to fight an employee with a grudge.
- HR, as a rule, is too preoccupied with formality to get talent right. Remember Star Wars? Obi Wan didn’t worry about not having all his formal Jedi training Powerpoint slides before engaging Luke Skywalker. Yoda didn’t bitch about Obi Wan’s lax methods when Luke showed up on Degoba, either. They just all got to work.
- HR likes to make people experts in HR. How many times have you heard an Industrial Psychologist teach you how to work with a “sensing” or “feeling” individual? NO ONE GIVES A HOOT. Tell me what to look for, and what to do when I find it. That’s what people need. Like when finance gives you an expense report: they don’t teach you how your numbers turn into debits and credits, they just give you a form.
- People are cheap. Many companies want to pay more for quality talent about as much as people want to pay more for organic food. We might know the benefits, but at the moment of decision, it comes back to, “Do I really want to spend an extra $2 for a dozen eggs today?”
- We live in a marketing world. It’s all about branding. And personal branding. And being famous. And maintaining appearances. And what brands we put on our bodies (have you looked at your sunglasses recently? I bet they have a big logo on the side). It’s going to be very difficult to build genuine organizations with smiley stock photography as readily available as it is.
Which leads me back to the titular question of this post:
Rethink HR?
Noble idea. But then again, so was tilting at windmills.
Rather than shout into the wind, I suggest we focus on the little things every day that improve culture.
Like picking up paper clips off the floor or saying hello to your coworkers.
Now can we get to work?
Jason Seiden is CEO of Ajax Workforce Marketing. Ajax amplifies brands by aligning employees' online messaging.
I'm Jason. I run a brand agency with a specialization in workforce marketing.
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Ooh, I loved this post. First, I did not get a chance to hear the entire HR Happy Hour show but I respect the guests that were on last night so I’ll listen to the replay today for the full download on their thoughts on culture in the workplace. However, based on your summation, I fall more into the Seiden Culture Camp (wow- thinking that could be a great name for a road trip event). Anyway…the one point I diverge from your thinking is that while HR doesn’t have power to change culture and leadership does, it’s really each individual employee that shapes culture.
Often companies have employees that actively promote cancerous culture BUT if that person is bringing in the revenue or some other high-value offering, they get to stay. Only when leadership and HR actively eradicate those people who are not working toward the mission in a way that promotes the “right” culture will it change. I do think HR can help move the change along by INFLUENCING leadership to listen to employees. HR can gather employees together to help give them power and a louder voice. But, that kind of transformation takes awhile.
And thanks for the shout out Jason. It’s fun to be reading along and see your name jump out. I’m honored and humbled that you give me so much credit. I believe this: Good culture starts with ME. I have to be sincere and curious about people and the work they do. When I am, they open the door wide in groups such as finance, marketing, quality/ risk management, etc. Once I’m in the door, that’s where the curiosity sets in and I act like a sponge and absorb all they will teach me. People love to share what they’re doing and what the vision of the department is. Then, you get asked to work along side with them….dare I say it….AT the table.
Thanks for the post and the recap.
My thought has been: a Company/business leadership start the culture, all employees shape the culture but no one can control it.
There is flawed thinking whenever someone states that one group or department owns the culture. I think HR and leadership have a stake and help guide it but ultimately no one can expect to know what the end result could be. It is like politics. Every few years we elect or re-elect people that say the system is broken and I am here to fix it, but when you continue to re-work policy that had one purpose in the beginning and then bend it to what you would like to see, you end up with a Frankenstein!
Culture is Frankenstein: An initial intent with an end result that cannot be controlled or owned.
Great post Jason! Last night’s show had great talking points and you’re spot on about culture shifts coming from the top. When the CEO embraces any new idea and walks the talk, it will trickle down. Even the bad ideas. This is where HR should be sharing what we know to guide the CEOs who are willing to change.
I also agree with HR pros taking more risks vs being too concerned with drinking tea with pinkies extended. It can be enlightening to get to know people, what their concerns are and what they would like to see changed in an organization.
Not every situation will be smooth sailing but the little victories we celebrate when working on influencing change will eventually add up.
I am too busy to comment here extensively, but I generally agree, especially with STFU and go do some work.
lately, I’ve been contemplating the notion of what is more important, leadership/current management or organizational culture. I’m working on a post, but I think the answer is both.
Why mention it here? I think that formula is the key to answering a lot of the questions above. Have to have basics in place to do the rest well.
Jason, this is so spot on. I have tired completely of people talking about changing how HR works and business runs. Think it up; do it. All the navel gazing is ridiculous. And it’s self congratulatory. I like people who do things and have real influence. I know lots of those…stick around with them. Not the pretenders.
Great thinking, man.
Corporate cultures are often so pervasive and longstanding that it is hard for anyone to make meaningful shifts, whether it is new leadership or HR. Taking a practical and optimistic view, I do believe leaders, and HR people that understand and aspire to be leaders can make a difference. It falls in the category of actions versus aspirations or a falsely stated reality. I think Trish is on target when she states leaders who allow behaviors that are in conflict with the stated or desired culture exist because of what individuals produce, how long they have been there or who they know, undermine any effort to create or sustain a different culture. I also subscribe to the theory that I create culture through my own behaviors and actions and hope that sphere of influence grows if I am authentic and consistent. My role as an HR leader is to model it, establish credibility with my fellow leaders to understand why we should even pay attention to it, and hold up the mirror to all of us when our behaviors are inconsistent with the desired outcomes.
What an awesome article. I appreciate the shot of adrealine on this Friday afternoon! Thanks for your contributions to the HR community.
Jason thanks for expanding upon the discussions last night on the HR Happy Hour show. It was an interesting conversation that perhaps through a lack of control from the host, morphed from the original idea for the show – mainly about adapting talent acquisition strategies to better compete today – and into a full-on discussion of something called ‘culture’. As soon as the ‘c’ word got introduced into the discussion, we were off the path and into an entirely new area. And that’s fine. I think (or at least I hope) one of the reasons the show is a resource is that we manage to collect up lots of smart and passionate people and let them share and discuss what is on their minds. I think the nature of a radio show, especially a ‘live’ one is bound to lead to more theorizing or navel-gazing. It isn’t a webinar or a SHRM conference presentation. I have huge respect for the insights offered by the guests, callers, listeners, and tweeters out there and I am glad that we have enough support for the show to have it continue to serve as a forum for this, and any other conversations, debates, or even self-reflective navel-gazing from time to time.
@Trish—It’s a good episode, worth listening to. And I like what you say about influencing. That’s key. It’s not enough to talk about the importance of removing cancerous employees, there needs to be action. And if leadership blocks you? Don’t complain, change your approach!
@Benjamin—Reality has a nasty way of making a mess of theory, doesn’t it?
@Kimberly—Thanks for the formality visual. Let’s change the question from “a seat at the table” to “getting to use the good china.” Whaddya say?
@Michael—I’m looking forward to your post… you’ve got great perspective on this.
@Frank—This is why we’re friends. See you on the field.
@Mark—I admire your ability to couple practical concerns with idealism. That’s a tough balance to maintain… thank you for the comments.
If this truly represents”the voice of leadership for the next generation” then quite frankly we’re fucked.
I’m sorry Jason, I don’t know you and if this seems over critical then just know that I am a gobby shite who knows no better. But I can’t help myself….
Points one and two are contradictory in the extreme, you imply that the minute that HR states that the culture sucks, that the “battle for corporate culture is already lost”. Then you go on to say that HR should “become the missing leadership”. Surely stating that there is a problem and suggesting solutions is taking that leadership role? “Tell them what to do differently”…yep agree….but you state that the corporate culture is already lost…..
Hard to argue with 3,4,5 and 6….you have my love and affection there.
Seven…….well you ignore ObiWan’s original failure with Anekin Skywalker. He didn’t follow the rules and he turned a major power over to the dark side…..
Eight, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong, wrong! People are not numbers. HR is not about forms. The management of people is not formulaic. That is what sucks about corporate society.
Nine. Agree, but don’t agree. You know what I mean?
Ten. OK, this is the biggest crock of old shit that is purveyed in the modern world of work. This is typical western thinking that is outdated. Branding is temporary it is and will be nothing. We are entering a knowledge economy. Past history and presentation will count for nothing.
Said my piece….now off for a long lie down in a dark room…..
@TheHRD—Phew, at last, someone disagrees with me! Now I can sleep peacefully knowing I said something important… though I’m surprised that the author of “My Hell Is Other People” would find quite so much to disagree about with the author of “Fail Spectacularly.” Who’d've thunk!
Obviously, we seem to be on track to agree to disagree here, which is cool. Just two quick questions, though: When you say “presentation will count for nothing,” does that mean you see a day coming when I won’t need to take a shower and put on decent looking clothes before meeting with a client? And how soon do you think that day will be here… like next week? I can’t wait!
@Steve—I love your show. I thought your guests last night are industry bright spots. The fact that the conversation went to culture isn’t a reflection on you; you run a talk show… that’s exactly the place to talk.
It’s what happens between the shows that really drove this article—which I didn’t do a good job articulating. It seems that between the shows, people are… waiting for the next show. Where’s the DO?!
As the CEO of a company, I take the responsibility of our corporate culture very seriously. I feel it is especially critical to make sure you hire for cultural fit to keep the flame going.
I also believe that my managers and leaders are responsible for continuing the development of the corporate culture and their departmental culture. The number one greatest element of the culture element for us is the constant respect of co-workers and ideas. This works by giving respect and hiring for the ability to respect. This formula works for us.
But I agree – it is not HR that carries this torch, it is leadership. HR can help us remember that we must make the culture part of the hiring decision and they can help us by pointing out times that we stray from our goals – but they will not change the culture for us.
Cheers
Lois
@Lois—I had a conversation with Steve Browne this afternoon about how HR works best when companies have leaders who “get it” hire strong, creative HR teams who also “get it.”
<love fest>
You repeatedly make it clear to the market—through your actions, your products, and your support of the community (including a terrific little internet radio show called HR Happy Hour), that you are one of those leaders. Thank you for bringing your voice to this discussion—and for backing it up with the action that is too often missing.
</love fest>
How does your organization balance the responsibilities between leadership & HR… is it any different than it is btn you and your head of marketing? Or finance?
@Jason – I’m glad you take what I say with a pinch of salt, it is intended to be consumed that way! I actually don’t disagree with the sentiments, just some of the arguments!
In terms of presentation, follow this scenario through. If we enter a truly global world. I mean TRULY not the half arsed one that we live in for now. I believe in such a scenario, knowledge and resources will be king. Presentation and branding is a very western construct. The power of India, China and Russia amongst other countries are not driven by brand and indeed to a Western eye can seem almost backward. But their economic growth is outstanding.
Add to that the growth in technology then no, you probably won’t need to take a shower or dress. You might not even “meet” your client. But you will need to demonstrate a hell of a lot more than just brand identity to secure business that could be shipped to any corner of the globe within seconds.
DIsagreement is good. It is how we get to think things through and ultimately grow. I may be talking a load of old balls and I’m happy to be called on that. It all adds to my personal development.
What about rethinking management consultants?!
Yeah. I said that.
@LR—I’m so right there with you.
I’m a little late to the party, although I will say this post was pretty witty (to say the least.)
That being said, I think there is nothing wrong with trying to find ways to improve, personally, professionally, organizationally, etc. As an example, that’s why some of buy those “organic eggs” – because perhaps we’re no longer ok with putting destructive hormones into our bodies. It’s also why not all of us are obese and don’t eat at McDonald’s, which is a lot “easier” than actually cooking a healthy meal.
Getting back to work” is a nice punchline – keeps the status-quo ship floating along at mediocre speeds (which means no need for Dramamine as it doesn’t play well with Oxycontin and Vicodin) . . . which I guess is ok since humans and groups are so resistant to change in the first place. Sooner or later, though, you have to look out for icebergs like globalization or increasing virtualization of teams, etc.
Sedentarily sitting around, eating the same crap as everyone else, and buying into the promise of mediocrity because “that’s the way it’s always been ’round here’” just isn’t for everyone. And it’s a good thing . . .
@Josh—improvement is sooo overrated… in fact, personal development is risky, stressful, and there’s no guarantee it’ll work.
Who needs that?!